Questions & Answers
If you have some questions this place is for you to get the answers.
If you see something interesting on Hungarian site and would like to know : “What’s that?” Than simple ask here.
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64 Responses to “Questions & Answers”
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December 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Hi
Has there been any testing of collectors that use sloping horizontal cans instead of the more usual vertical can format?
My large (1.8m x 20m) fence mounted collector would be much cheaper to build if the cans were horizontal
December 29th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
There is a working horizontal beer can collector: http://web.t-online.hu/feltser1958/Soroslo/soroslo.html
It works fine like vertical ones
December 29th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Szia Admin,
Thanks for the link, its good to know there is a tried and tested horizontal collector, hopefully I won`t need the winch
Its very difficult to find relevent posts even after figuring “Keresés” means “Search”
The horizontal cans are ideal for saving on aluminium sheet, the dividers even for very long collectors are only needed at each end.
I calculated each 17.3m row of cans in my planned collector will need 68m3/hr @ 100Pa.
A grand total of 1836m3/hr and 2600 Pa .. i think i`ll need to use multiple fans
December 30th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Hi everyone!
I am Gabson as same as at Hungarian site. I am not an professional entrepreneur (cabinetmaker) but I will try to help you.
Try to write your own post than put some information/picture. That is a better place to put you question there. Be cool answer will come soon!
Gabson
December 31st, 2008 at 6:18 am
Can someone tell me what is said about,solkote hi/absorb 11,on Hungarian site?
Yes!
This is the best liquid paint what you can get anyway:
http://www.solec.org/solkotehome.htm
Gabson
December 31st, 2008 at 8:02 am
What kind of polycarbonate we use. And why?
We use 10 mm thick one side UV protected polycarbonate.
It comes 10 years limited warranty!
It is cheaper than a glass.
It is lightweight only 1700 g/m2!
K-value is low 3.0 W/m2K.
More information:
http://mk.quicknet.se/221033/upload/dokument/multiclear-box-2-wall-09-07.pdf
Gabson
December 31st, 2008 at 10:47 am
If you have trouble to convert units. This site helps you:
http://www.digitaldutch.com/unitconverter/
Gabson
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
To post your project,CLICK SITE ADMIN,THEN CLICK,WRITE NEW POST.there was confusion on my part,but also new member,mostvideo had problem finding write button.my internet explower would not go to site admin.i had to change browser to GOOGLE CHROME,which works great.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Hello,
I’m in the process of building a beer collector in Canberra, Australia. We are located at Latitude 35 degrees South (compared to Hungary 46 deg North).
Has anyone got any information or experience with installing the collector on the roof (cans running horizontally) and tilted back to an angle such that the collector is perpendicular to the Winter sun? I’m concerned that mounting it flat to a North wall will have the panel 32 degrees out from facing the sun at midday. I also don’t have an unshaded North wall that is suitable:-)
I’m looking to use 150mm insulated duct to connect the collector to vents in the ceiling with the outflow in a different room to the inflow. I found a product called ‘IXL Easy Duct Thermal Transfer System’ that will provide the fan, duct and vents.
Cheers,
Matthew
PS: This is now my favourite website! Keep up the good work and thanks for providing an English version.
February 1st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Matthew Driver:
Hi. Matthew,
Look at this site:
http://www.sorkollektor.hu/?p=5043
This heater was installed on the roof.
Translating site here:
http://www.webforditas.hu/index.php?show=textTab&lang=english
regards, father-52 from Hungary
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:09 am
Thanks fater-52 for your reply. The translation site you recommend worked much better than other I’ve tried.
I have some more questions:-)
I’m trying to source SOLKOTE HI/SORB-II paint in Australia, no luck yet. Does anyone have an advice on sourcing this paint? I’m happy to pay for freight from Europe if there are no other choices.
What volume of paint do you suggest I purchase for painting a 2m sq collector (14×14 375mL cans).
I’m confused as to whether it is better to paint the backing material behind the cans or use a reflective foil? For me it makes more sense to use a non-painted reflective foil to bounce the heat and light back at the cans. It hard to see from photos what other people are doing.
Cheers,
Matthew
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 am
It’s worth both, to paint all the the side of cans and behinde the cans you hav to use som reflective foil.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:19 am
Hi Admin,
I understand the entire can should be painted.
Can you clarify what you are saying regarding the reflect foil behind the cans. Do you paint the reflect foil or leave it shiny?
Cheers,
Matthew.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:29 am
the reflectiv foil must leave shiny, to reflect all heat back to cans.
So you have to use the reflective foil two reason:
- reflect back the heat
- protect the insulation of high heat
reflective foil could be:
- simple kitchen aluminium foil
- thermo-mirror - from somekind of heating store, looks like this: http://www.hungary-tourist-guide.com/sorkollektor_hu/wp-content/sorkoli2_05.JPG
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 am
Great, I thought it should be left reflective, I just can’t see it in any of the finished product photos.
Product example link here:
What about reflective foil paper (called Sarking) used under roof tiles? http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Products/Commerical/Thermofoil-Foil-Sarking/Thermofoil-MD-Sarking.aspx
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Hi Matthew Driver:
I looked that Thermofoil then I red this:
S E CT ION 5: F IR E F IGHT ING ME AS UR E S
S pec ific Hazards : Not flammable – delaminates above 80°C.
E xtinguis hing Media: Use extinguishing media (e.g. carbon dioxide, water, foam or dry chemical) and equipment as required if
fire in surrounding materials .
F ire F ighting P rocedures : If product is present in a fire, some smoke and toxic gasses may be evolved. Wear protective
equipment including S elf Contained Breathing Apparatus (S CBA) when combating fire.
Hazardous Decompos ition Produc ts : When heated above 120°C, the adhes ive may break down releasing chlorine and
hydrogen chloride.
Some members measured over 120 Celsius above in their collector at summer time.
I may consider to use a simple aluminum foil.
Regards, Gabson
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:44 am
Gabson: Well spotted. And considering I’m 11 degrees closer to the Sun in Summer, I might just need a cover for my collector:-)
February 8th, 2009 at 12:14 am
I’m trying to work out what silicone product to buy to join the cans together.
I have found that silicone designed for ‘Roof, Gutter & Metal’ is suitable for up to 150 deg Celsius. It comes in a range of colours including black. Is this the kind of product you would recommend for the job?
Cheers, Matthew.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:40 am
Matthew Driver:
YES!
February 8th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Hi Matthew Driver:
I think that’s good. I shell try with a small amount to know open time, dry time and flexibility. You may get a good experience in a small one then you can glue a big one no surprise.
Regards, Gabson.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Ta. I’m glad your comments are positive.
I’ve just glued 2 x 14 can columns with the stuff. I found zinc ceiling batons are a cheap and straight channel to hold my cans while drying. Also a rubber band can fit around both the can and channel (without adding screws or nails for each can position).
Cheers,
Matthew.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:08 am
I’m getting close to a possible source of SolKote in Australia. How many litres do you recommend I buy to paint a 2m2 collector?
February 9th, 2009 at 9:07 am
0.5 L is enough for 2m2 kollektor
February 15th, 2009 at 5:27 am
Hi All,
I’m a bit confused as to the current thinking regarding using fixed windmills between the cans.
I currently have 200×375mL cans drilled top and bottom ready to join. I have tested joining two columns with no windmills.
Should I;
A: Use no windmills.
B: Use windmills only in the middle columns.
C: Use windmills on all columns.
D: Some other option.
Cheers,
Matthew.
February 15th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Hi, Matthew,
When I built my panel I was using windmills (fins) in every join.
It caused a bigger flow-resistance in the tubes so I bought a stronger fan. It is more noisy than the previous one.
Some people makes it without windmills and use a smaller fan. Those panels are working well. They told it.
regards, fater-52 from Hungary
February 15th, 2009 at 8:04 am
fater-52: Hi fater-52, thanks for your reply. What sizes fan did you have before and what did you upgrade to? I’m fairly annal about power use:-) I’ve purchased a 40W fan that sits inline with 150mm duct. I’m unsure what Wattage fans others are using. I’m guessing 40W is probably less powerful than most??
February 15th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Matthew Driver: Originally I had an axial ventilator. Its pressure was only 45 Pascals, (165m3/hours, 120 mm dia) but my panel has very high flow-resistance. Its wattage was 18 Watts. It was a bathroom-fan.
I replaced it with a squirrel wheel. (200 Pascals, 180 m3/hours, 100 mm dia). Its wattage is 40 Watts.
If you have windmills in tubes pressure is a very important factor.
Panel’s surface is 27 sqf (2,5 m2), 18 columns, its tallness is 11 cans and distributors. It might if you don’t put windmills in a smaller ventilator will be enough.
Some people use big fans (100W-200W). In my opinion it is an unnecessary thing.
February 26th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Hi,
I would like to ask you is it important that the front glass, has to be convex ? Or it is just the aesthetical matter ?
February 26th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
amedo_poland:
Hi, amedo_poland,
It isn’t important but the convex cover is more rigid than plain (flat).
For example if you set up a plain (flat) sheet of paper it will sway but if you set up a convex sheet it will stayed up.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I wonder is it neccessary to cut out upper part of can, there is a “drinking hole” which can be a duct for air ??
I am cutting lower part of cans with can opener, and it is working quite nice. Sometime opener makes a small hole outside can, but it is not a big problem.
March 7th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
the drinking hole is too small it has a great resistance for air flowing.
In a standard 2m2 beercollector has about 150 pcs of beer cans, it menas
that the air have to go throw 150 narrow holes. You’d better cut out both sides.
March 13th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Hi,
Is there any opinion about how much air space should be surrounding the tubes of cans? Should the tubes be near the back of the box, is there any advantage if there is space in front of the cans? Would additional aluminim in the box be useful? perhaps to hold heat?
Regards Marlon_uk
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 am
Hi All,
I’m ready to buy a sheet of polycarbonate for my collector.
The collector will be approx. 2.2m x 1m
I have found a supplier that has 4.5mm and 6mm sheets in 2.4m x 1.2m.
I’m looking to use extruded Aluminum for the frame. The product is called ‘150mm Sign Box section’. It has a 5.2mm slot around the edge that will fit the 4.5mm polycarbonate nicely.
Question: Is 4.5mm polycarbonate mounted flat (not concave) going to be strong enough? What thicknesses are other people using?
Cheers,
Matthew.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:59 am
If you see this picture: http://www.sorkollektor.hu/wp-content/fedesi-veszteseg.jpg
You will some usefull informations. Its all about in hungarian. But I give you some help:
üveg= glass
Pc= policarbonat (flat cristal cleer)
Pc üregkamrás = policarbonat struktured
In the table of the last column shows the “thermal earnigs”. The bigger is better.
To protect the “cover” not to be concave put some spacers, legs between the tubes with rubber ends.
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:04 am
admin: Thanks Admin, Nice table. So now I’m considering 4 or 5mm glass…
My collector will be mounted on a wall with a tilt of 30 degrees from the vertical (so that it faces directly at our winter sun).
In this scenario is glass considered strong enough?
(we don’t have snow and hail is rare does happen every few years)
Were you referring to using legs with glass or PC?
I could also go with double glazing, I’ve installed plenty of it in my windows but was concerned about adding weight to the collector:-)
Cheers,
Matthew.
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
I think 4-5mm glass is stong enough for enormous weather. Now I think 4-5mm glass is mutch better than PC. But dont use double glazing! Because the glass could crash because of very high temeperature difference. If you use double glazing at all, dont use metallic spacers between glass.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Oh, I forget: Legs need only for PC.
June 20th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Hello on 13th June szbalogh on the Hungarian site put a picture of an interesting collector from Renewable Energy journal. Is there any information on how these would be used? and did they consider tubes of cans.
June 21st, 2009 at 10:07 am
marlon_uk: Sorry, no datas, but as Is see this variation is much less effective than a regular beer can solar collectro.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Hi everybody,
I’m new her and I found very interested all your comments and projects.
I’m on my way to build my first solar collector. It’s 4 x 8 and will contained 272 pop can.
I follow all your instructions here and on everysite wich many of you write in. I’ll start to build the divider and I have one question about it. On Hemmings Auto Blog, Marlon said : The hungarians use 4″ input and 5″ output.
Can someone explain why, because I have difficulty to figure out what append with bigger or samller output. My thinking is :
1- If the output is smaller, the air will be force to stay longer in the tube (that mean more pressure on tube either and it’s not bad to rise the temperature PV=nRT)…
2- but the opposite (a bigger output) seams to be logical to. More room for the air and it’s stay longer on the tube .
As you can see, I’m not good at physic. Can someone help me on that?
August 7th, 2009 at 6:34 am
All the inlet and outlet has the same size, except your ventil has a small size you can add a biger outlet to reduce the resistenace of your system.
August 7th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
admin: Thank you admin for your answer. It’s make a lot of sense.
I have another question. If I put a 185 cfm fan on my collector is it better to have a 6″ input and output?
August 7th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
it depends some (se below) thing, but bigger out and input always better choise than smaler.
What kind of fan do you plan to use, axial or radial? We have a calculator, so if you give me some datas, i calculate you the correct fan size.
datas nedded:
- size of the complete collector
- number of tubes
- inlet and outlet diameter
- it will be on the wall,or on the roof?
- if on the roof, how long the ilnelt and outlet
August 7th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
admin:
Thank you for your help:
- size of the complete collector
4 feet X 8 feet
- number of tubes
16 tubes (17 pop can each)
- inlet and outlet diameter
lets say 6 inches
- it will be on the wall,or on the roof?
on the roof
- if on the roof, how long the ilnelt and outlet
about 7 feet long each
August 7th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
And for the type of fan it’s like a Squirrel Cage Type
August 7th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
More questions : What about the shape of this inlet (and maybe outlet) to be connected on the divider (the one on this site)? Do you think it can help the flow to go evenly on each tube?
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=911537&Ntt=911537&catalogId=10051&langId=-16&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=258002&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
August 7th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Ok, so
the preassure dropping of your system is 150 Pa and recommnend about 190CFM fan, so 185 CFM Squirrel Cage Type will perfect! (thats very good-cause it can do high Pa) ,
In one of my collector has the same shape of inlet “transformer” because the fan utlet is square type
August 7th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
one more thing you have to use 6 inch tubes between the collector and the room,
if the tubes smaler, than need a new calculation
August 7th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
admin: thank you so much for your help… I’ll follow your recommendation.
I’ll try to post some pic of my collector soon. Maybe I’ll do a little vidéo like My2cents does and put the link here.
Thank you again for your time by helping me.
By the way, excuse my poor english, I’m french speaking
January 18th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Matthew Driver:
Matthew, I don’t know if they ship to where you live but here is a link I have from some fellow solar builders on the solkote paint hope it helps you out.
http://www.solec.org/
February 16th, 2010 at 12:04 am
I haven’t make a video of my project. Instead, here’s my blog showing my project.
http://chez-le-pere-michel.blogspot.com/2009/12/galarneau-et-moi-ou-mon-projet-de.html
Special thank to my2cents for your inspirational video and to admin for your precious help.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Nice work TraddyBears, Congratulation!
It’s very a good think to see such a succesful project like yours!
February 20th, 2010 at 3:21 am
Hey! Hey!… Thank’s for posting a picture of my project.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:26 am
TraddyBear
That’s a great looking collector you built. Where in Canada are you located. I’m in the states, in Georgia and am working on a collector myself thanks to all the help from the Admin I’m getting. He makes it much easier
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Hi gwest77
I’m located here in Drumondville, Quebec, Canada
I really too appreciate all the help I’ve got from Admin to acheived my project.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 am
Ok TraddyBear
If you like to fish you are not far from some of the greatest salmon fishing in the world. Ever heard of the Salmon River in New York State ? From mid September to the end of October some record size fish run that river to spawn. I hope to have my collector finished in a couple of weeks. Can only work on it on weekends.
Stay warm up that way. I have to say again, that is a fine looking collector.
April 2nd, 2010 at 1:28 am
Hello all,
This is my first comment though I have been reading and learning about these heaters for some time. I decided about a year ago to build one. I’m looking for some assistance with sizing the fan as I’ve tried a few and they seem too small. My heater is horizontal with 15cm inlet and outlet holes. There are 34 pop cans in each row and 22 rows. I have cut fins into the bottom of every third can.(was going to do every can, but it was taking too long). I have some pictures, but being new I haven’t figured out how to post them yet. Looking forward to your thoughts. Regards, Doug
April 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 am
Hi Doug,
To calculate your fittable fun need more information:
How long will be the toubing (both) from collectro to room?
How many directon changing on the toubing (both)?
The size of your collector’s absorber (popcantubes aand dividers together)
(I’m activated your account so you can write a post and upload pictures too)
Zoli
April 2nd, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Hi Zoli,
Thanks for your fast reply. From the room to the collector is 40cm and from the collector to the room is 40cm. The pipe is straight out and straight in. I counted again and the length is 36 cans long with 22 rows. The cans measure 12cm long and 6.5cm in diameter. The whole collector is 463cm long and 158cm high. The dividers start at 15cm and taper to 5cm by 12cm deep.
Regards, Doug
April 2nd, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Hi Zoli,
Here are the pictures again as I don’t think I did it correctly.
http://tmpj0w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pxJ0RYyOZhEngmn-pmGqNC0mLFo6bfVP43EN8nnbLcC5CXZqfLvNUIBqUhPeksTi5kUmQhMxQVqOwfWZ88BZiTIR-cv_gXiq4/IMG_4872.jpg
April 2nd, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Your collector resistance is extremly high! About 1000 Pa (10milibar).
You should use doube (outlet -150mm) to reduce it. Then the resistance will be 200 Pa, thats better
You have to examine the output curve of the ventil, it have to do 820 m3/h airflow at 200 Pa resistance.
April 2nd, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Thanks! I’ll try making the outlet bigger.
April 4th, 2010 at 5:44 am
TrradyBear
Do you have a link I can reach you at concerning the way you built your dividers (manifolds) ?
I would be thankful
Greg
April 10th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Hello Greg
If you need to have more details about how I made the manifold you can e-mail me at traddybear@gmail.com.
Do you have taked a look at my blog site ?:
http://chez-le-pere-michel.blogspot.com/2009/12/galarneau-et-moi-ou-mon-projet-de.html
I just read your previous comment about fishing… It’s sound great and gave me good ideas for the next autumn :))